Curse

Mo/R9 · Jul 20, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

I tank with my necro and I find it very effective.

Three words: Mass Life Siphon.

salja Wachi · Jul 20, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Necros aren't underestimated in pvp. They are easily the crappiest primary profession in the game and only useful for special builds where SR or runes are useful, i,e OOV/BiP/OOP spam, Putrid in hoh, and condition spam setups. Necro secs are insanely useful for stuff like rend but primaries aren't worth it in most cases. Add in the fact that most necro primaries are newbs running around with life transfer/vampiric gaze and stuff and you can see why people detest them. General perception is wrong most of the time but they're dead on in this case with necros for pvp.

In pve they are amazing, but I don't think that was the point of the topic.

rotflmao that must be the biggest load of crap i have ever heard. necros blow for PvP.

i am not even going to start on how important a necro is in PvP because it is obvious you would not recognize the spells and hexes if i tried,

suffice it to say that with the second best armor and some of the best spells in the game a good necro is just as good if not better and any air ele or mesmer you are gonna put out there. you are the truly ignorant one and i cannot wait till there is 1v1 PvP so i can show you how a "crappy necro" will own you in about 20 seconds

knives · Jul 20, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

My prot monk can tank. My mesmer can tank. My tank can tank. So why not let a necro tank? Everything can tank.

I agree with the underestimation of the necro class. I don't like those minion masters or those who only want to use death magic with blood (for vampiric things). I think that a wholey supportive necro could break or make a team. When monks call out low energy, stick blood is power on them and you can just vamp everything (when you get hurt, mainly because of life sacrifices imo) to help out the monk yet again, by not having to waste energy/time healing you, when he/she can focus on a more concentrated target. Order of pain, shadow strike, strip enchantment/rend, unholy feast, well of blood, enfeebling blood, shadow of fear, weaken armor, wither, defile flesh (on attacked monk), etc.

Though I have to admit, those N/W who go melee own my knocklock warrior hands down.

quartet4 · Jul 20, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I love playing necro to help prepare targets in PvP. Lingering Curse + Malign Intervention (+ optional Rend Enchantments for more enchantment removal) help fellow dmg spikers take out monks very easily. And unlike Nature's Renewal, these skills don't remove your own team's enchantments as well.

Rieselle · Jul 20, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I thought another reason for choosing a necro primary over another caster primary was the armour - isnt necro armour somewhat better than caster armor?

Edit: Hmmm, after looking it up, it seems necro armour is 60AL just like all other casters?

Malchiel · Jul 20, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

It's better than any other classes. The necrotic is 70al, save against holy damage. But then holy damage is weak anyways, definitely not something you need to worry about. At least if you know how to play...

Big Fat Duck · Jul 20, 2005, 02:57 AM // 02:57

necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much

Malchiel · Jul 20, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fat Duck

necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much

Probably you just suck at it? Btw shouldn't it be easier for you to heal another than yourself? And if there's a group who targets the necro rather than the monk?

Btw, n/w should be one of the classes that needs the *least* healing.

Quote:

Though I have to admit, those N/W who go melee own my knocklock warrior hands down.

Quoted for truth. N/W can outlast most warriors out in the team arena. One on one they're almost invincible save vs. mesmers, a really good mesmer too at that.

Crusader · Jul 20, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fat Duck

necro/warriors always make my team lose (im a monk), i have to heal them too much

well, like any class... you have people that make good builds.. and ones that make crappy builds... my N/W has saved my team in PvP many times... in fact.. thats one of the most powerful builds i've made.
about the only thing that will stop it is severe life degen,
or hex breaker.... damn mesmers.

goldfinger · Jul 20, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I really think necros are underestimated because of A) all of the specific build teams out there (spike, spirit, etc.) and B) The best ones are full on support. A good necro can pretty much support any class, I said it before and I will say it again, a warrior takes down a monk ALOT easier when they are missing their enchentments, unable to block, taking extra damage per hit and damage each time they heal themselves, plus the effects of lingering curse/defile flesh are really priceless according to john Q smart player.

I also think the necro is harder to play, considering all of the sucky ones out there.

Whoever says necros suck in arena is wrong, dead wrong. Find a better warrior killer, in fact I DARE you to do so. If a warrior steps up to me they simply cannot win 1 vs 1. Rangers also have a tough time with yours truely too, hell I win way more than when I play as an ele.

Skyro · Jul 20, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Whoever says energy storage > soul reaping has never played any serious, high-level PvP (or perhaps is simply, and completely, ignorant). The only cases I can think of where energy storage is better is in arenas (which isn't serious by any stretch of the imagination) or if you're spiking or something and you need the huge mana pool (but obviously in such a case you want to be ele prime anyway for the runes). In the long run soul reaping far outweighs energy storage. 3 deaths from ANYTHING, ANYWHERE NEAR you = energy storage. 4+ deaths and you're already in the green.

Jul 20, 2005, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Um, As a whole Energy Storage completely blows Soul Reaping out of the water. Anyone who has played any serious PvP knows this, and realizes it very fast. Like others have said before SR is decent in Dias maps, but other than that the effect isnt really much of an Energy engine. Energy Storage on the other hand comes with the energy battery of all batteries: Ether Renewal, potentially the fast energy refresher in the game. Soul Reaping comes with...?

ManaCraft · Jul 20, 2005, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

There is no reason, other than camoflauge, to run a primary necro if you are not going to use soul reaping; every necro skill is also available as a necro secondary.

Uhm, runes?

Also, divine favor, as a primary attribute, is even more useless to me than soul reaping. Therefore necro is the obvious choice for a primary. Not to mention that unless you can spend exactly 200 attribute points elsewhere, you will always have a bit left over for reaping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Um, As a whole Energy Storage completely blows Soul Reaping out of the water. Anyone who has played any serious PvP knows this, and realizes it very fast. Like others have said before SR is decent in Dias maps, but other than that the effect isnt really much of an Energy engine. Energy Storage on the other hand comes with the energy battery of all batteries: Ether Renewal, potentially the fast energy refresher in the game. Soul Reaping comes with...?

Three deaths with SR = energy storage.

Not much of an energy engine? Well, it's certainly better than energy storage on it's own in any advanced pvp setting (no, that term does not include arenas).

Ether Renewal is a skill, not a primary attribute. Using it requires a willingness to sacrifice your elite skill slot.

ManaCraft

sino-soviet · Jul 20, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

A PVE necro can be a great character, equal to any other class. But in pvp, necros are erratic and far more situational than they ought to be. Soul reaping is utilized when you are either being thrashed or are thrashing. As for soul reaping being superior to energy storage....wtf? I'd take a 33 energy right off the bat ready to use, thank you very much. I can see death necro choosing necro over another primary. Superior rune of curses? Of blood magic? In pvp? Most useful necro skills are effective during the lower attribute levels, particularly in curses. You really don't need a 16 in enfeebling blood or rend enchantments.

Jul 20, 2005, 07:30 AM // 07:30

The fact that you need 3 deaths to have a chance at equalizing ES more than speaks for the reason most good players dont pick Soul Reaping. 3 deaths vs good teams isn't an easy thing, and it's exactly why this dumb argument is still going-most people are horrible.

If you're a caster and you're going to be an E/N or a N/E the choice is ridiculously obvious in most cases: Energy Storage. Even without Ether Renewal guaranteed front loaded energy>backloaded conditional energy unless you can repeatedly trigger the condition. And since the condition is death,it doesn't take anyone with common sense to see why Energy Storage beats Soul Reaping in most cases, and why the "3 deaths=ES argument" is bullshit-because it doesnt.

Jul 20, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Malchiel are you ever going to stop trolling? And when did I say they cant be chained? Seriously, stop trolling.

Saerden · Jul 20, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Ouch. Whats next, claiming Ensign has no clue about the game?

Does anyone has any REAL arguments for Soul Reaping / Primary Necros? Things like 2674 deaths > energy storage + ether renewel dont really hold, you know...

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

The fact that you need 3 deaths to have a chance at equalizing ES more than speaks for the reason most good players dont pick Soul Reaping. 3 deaths vs good teams isn't an easy thing, and it's exactly why this dumb argument is still going-most people are horrible.

If you're a caster and you're going to be an E/N or a N/E the choice is ridiculously obvious in most cases: Energy Storage. Even without Ether Renewal guaranteed front loaded energy>backloaded conditional energy unless you can repeatedly trigger the condition. And since the condition is death,it doesn't take anyone with common sense to see why Energy Storage beats Soul Reaping in most cases, and why the "3 deaths=ES argument" is bullshit-because it doesnt.

Plus the fact that once three deaths have occured, one team probably already would have a big advantage. Now, in a long, brutal match, I could see Soul Reaping giving you an advantage.

Necros give you advantages in armor (70AL or +energy is better than +armor vs. elemental in my opinion; +energy also minimizes the advantage that Energy Storage gives the Elementalist), lets you use Necro Runes and +1 on your hat, and sometimes frees up your secondary (instead of just taking E/N so you can have energy storage). You'll also be percieved differently by the other team and you'll be targeted either more or less, depending on whether Necros are part of a strong FotM build, or not.

There are good reason to take a Necro class. Soul Reaping is good, but not great. However, I don't think anyone can argue that it's better than Energy Storage. I'd rather have Energy Storage 90% of the time.

Zeru · Jul 20, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

This thread seems to be rivaling this one http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&page=1&pp=25 in terms of incorrect information.

Here's why you would choose nec primary:

Soul Reaping: As has been mentioned many times, Soul reapings condition is really terrible unless it is an altar map and that is only because it is 1v1v1 and there is another team to consider. The condition that has to be met in a pure 1v1 is a very deciding element and you getting some extra energy probably isn't going to mean much either way. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds such as an Order spammer.

Runes: Frankly there isn't a whole lot of use for this in most circumstances. Blood runes are the only ones I can see being good, getting 13 for a +6 BiP is nice and having high blood for an Order of Pain/Vampire spammer is definitely useful. I guess a death rune for putrid wouldn't be a bad idea, but putrid totally blows outside of altar maps. Not a very good reason outside of uncommon builds.

Armor: 70 AL is better than the monk/ele/mes 60+x vs something but when renewal spam dies down and more teams start running buffed rangers/warriors with judges insight you are really going to have problems. Not a very good reason.

Again, Necro is a very limited primary and is best left for lesser used, team based builds such as a BiPer, Putrid, or Order spammer.

Remember nobody is saying bad stuff against necro secondary. Rend is invaluable and several other spells are quite useful but the primary itself is not worth it 90% or more of the time in pvp.

Celes Tial · Jul 20, 2005, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

It's better than any other classes. The necrotic is 70al, save against holy damage. But then holy damage is weak anyways, definitely not something you need to worry about. At least if you know how to play...

Ok, I was not planning to post again in this thread, but this one comment just made me laugh out loud in the office (funny glances from work mates included).

The last time I was in Tombs I did 200 damage to a necro with that very armor with one single smite skill click and for only 5 energy. Or how about you try taking 50 unresistable damage a second for 12 seconds while cornered / body blocked / knocked down / snared.

I wish all necros used that armor, it makes messing with them more fun.